Comment Trail September 5 - 12
Review of Anthony Julius's book about English antisemitism
A little belatedly, @Progressive Alaska blog
Fareed Zakaria says America May Have Overreacted to September 11 …
@ Bob's: Comments: Orwellian Derangement
Burning books
@ TNR: Democracy in Egypt
Leon Wieseltier on the Ground Zero mosque
Marty Peretz on the Ground Zero mosque
Yossi Klein Halevi on the Ground Zero mosque's Imam
@ Mick Hartley: Karel de Gucht, the European Commissioner for Trade, opines about the source of all evil (The Jewish Lobby)
@ Mick's: How Allah honored wives by instating the punishment of beatings.
@ Bob's: On Michael Moore and other Internet moderation busters
posted by The Contentious Centrist @ Sunday, September 05, 2010
14 comments
14 Comments:
Someone "Anonymous" left a comment on this post but the spam interceptor threw it into the spam bin. Here is the comment:
"You are no centrist and it is clearly visible. Be a man and start calling yourself for what you are. Don't play dirty and show us your real opinion so we can judge the real you, not your pretensions. Tell us if you believe black people are inferior to you, tell us if you believe all Muslims should be destroyed. Tell us all."
I thought it is important to publish the comment as is. I always maintain that people indict themselves much more effectively when allowed to fulminate unrestrained.
Does that mean you believe that the intention of the opposition to the mosque by the families of those who perished in 9/11, and those who support them, is to begin "an evil system of segregation based on religious beliefs"? -- Noga
No, that is what Imam Rauf supports, and the reason that many oppose it.
What it really comes down to for these Leftists that support the mosque, is that they will support anyone in opposition to the evil system of Western Civilization. Where-ever Western Conservatives stand, they stand on the other side, because Western Conservatives defend the Civilization that gave us (fill in the blank crimes against humanity).
BTW Noga as regards the GZM and Islam...Thomas Jefferson has some words of wisdom...
"A strict observation of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lost the law itself, with life, liberty, property, and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means." --Thomas Jefferson to John Colvin, 1810.
"Every society has a right to fix the fundamental principles of
its association, and to say to all individuals, that if they
contemplate pursuits beyond the limits of these principles and
involving dangers which the society chooses to avoid, they must go somewhere else for their exercise; that we want no citizens, and still less ephemeral and pseudo-citizens, on such terms. We may exclude them from our territory, as we do persons infected with
disease." --Thomas Jefferson to William H. Crawford, 1816.
Regarding my first comment. You can see the reflexive response from Nancy Pelosi, that the people that needed to be investigated were regular Americans, and not those of the ideology behind the 9/11 terrorist attack....and whose proponents, believers, and purveyors have been vigorously condemning the United States and Western Civilization in the most hostile of terms, including a never ending series of terrorist attacks. Those folks are just the likely victims of a would be American lynch mob. The safety of Americans (especially of the white Euro Christian variety) is the last thing on Nancy Pelosi's mind. In Sweden and Norway, Muslim immigrants well being trumps protecting indigenous women from being raped.
This hostility is well established and widespread on the Left. Diversity is a code word for disempowering white Euro Christians, via legalized discrimination and mass immigration of third worlders.
The balkanization of the West, in which their no value system or ethnicity with which those nations can unite, will lead to mass violence, civil war, and crimes against humanity. The Left is setting up this situation. Of course they wish to divide and conquer and implement authoritarian government (which they will run), which is the point of the excercise.
The Western Left is vile.
http://daletoons.blogspot.com/2010/08/hidden-imam.html
Thought you would like the cartoon, note the graffiti on the wall to the right of the Imam.
when you need relief from the TNR comment trail:
http://www.renewamerica.com/columns/fischer
from Fischer's August 26 post:
"...As eminent Supreme Court justice Joseph Story said in his discussion of the history of the First Amendment, "The real object of the amendment was, not to countenance, must less to advance Mohametanism, or Judaism, or infidelity by prostrating Christianity; but to exclude all rivalry among Christian sects and to prevent any national ecclesiastical establishment..."
I am going to do some research into the original debate over the First Amendment even though the meme catching hold now is the civil rights parallel you have seen from NR????? in the Wieseltier thread.
Hope you read Pipes on Islam versus Islamism in today's JPost http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Columnists/Article.aspx?id=187326
K2K
we're talking about a community center, not a mosque. You know meetings, parties, weddings etc.
Do you agree with Pam Gellar, who initiated this issue, that all of Islam should be banned? Muslims not be allowed to practice religion? She also wrote that Obama is really Malcolm X's illegitimate son.
I've opposed political Islam, for decades. I supported the Soviet Union in Afghanistan. The US created political Islam, going back to supporting the Muslim Brotherhood against Nasser. The US put the mullahs in Iran in power, to encircle the Soviet Union with Islamic governments. Lets see Afghanistan, Iran, and Pakistan were Islamist.
Regards
AS I rarely, if ever, read Pamela Geller's blog I have no way of knowing whether she "initiated this issue". I thought the issue was initiated by a group of property developers who got it into their head that it would be a good idea to build a mega Islamic community center with a "praying space" right next to GZ, on one of the buildings which was damaged by the 9/11 attack.
Of course the Cordova Initiators have an impeccable constitutional right to built whatever they want wherever they want. But that doesn't alter the impression that they are over reaching, and that their motivation for building that mosque right there and then is somewhat unclear.
To be sure, it is very convenient to attribute the protests against the initiative to a Jewish, fiercely Zionist blogger such as Geller. You know what they say, about finding a convenient Jew nearby to blame for uncomfortable things happening.
Be a man Noga, be a man!
http://newledger.com/2010/09/the-desperation-summit/
has the photo of the WH dinner table from Sept 2, with a seating arrangement I did not imagine possible.
Many different sources backtrack to the opposition to the Ground Zero Mosque. Retired NYC Firefighter and 9/11 survivor Timothy Brown deserves credit for raising one early alarm. He did not throw together his petition for Landmarking 45-51 Park Place overnight. Just because the opposition was not reported by the New York Times does not mean it did not exist. The Community Board 1 vote in May had ten abstentions, even after the non-binding resolution deliberately excluded any reference to the mosque within the still undefined community/cultural center.
I do not read Gellar, but her protest on June 6 DID apparently get the increasingly shady trio behind the GZM to rename it from Cordoba House to Park51.
It no longer matters who started the opposition - the debate will continue to get more and more interesting as long as new questions about the shady trio of El-Gamal, Rauf, and Khan, and the money behind them, continue to appear.
K2K
Today's NYT gives Rauf the opportunity to emphasize Cordoba House name, re-taking control of the project.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/08/opinion/08mosque.html?_r=1&hp
"...From the political conflicts between Israelis and Palestinians to the building of a community center in Lower Manhattan, Muslims and members of all faiths must work together if we are ever going to succeed in fostering understanding and peace. ..."
is only one the high-minded phrases that makes me wonder how this man sees the world.
K2K
He is a demopath of the Muslim variety, unlike the Western Leftist variety, that plague our institutions and NGO's.
National Public Radio links to partner content from The New Republic! the URL is tnr.com, not any of our comment trails :)
More specifically to the Burning Books trail:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=129750471
"Quran Burning As Uncivil As Mosque"
by Andrew C. McCarthy
[with this link for Rauf's plea to Malaysian Christians to not be socially provocative - the Catholic newspaper in Malaysia used the word Allah for G-d, so some Malays firebombed some churches]:
Wednesday January 13, 2010
Seeking harmony in Malaysia
By IMAM FEISAL ABDUL RAUF
http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2010/1/13/focus/5458409&sec=focus
K2K
from K2K: Do you think anyone in Washington pushing for peace understands that this fatwa is a foundational document for all Islamists, e.g., Hamas, and not just a memento from 1979 that only Al Qaeda still believes?
"DEFENCE OF THE MUSLIM LANDS
The First Obligation After Iman
by Sheikh Abdullah Azzam (Shaheed)"
http://www.religioscope.com/info/doc/jihad/azzam_defence_6_chap4.htm
"...Conditions for Making Peace Treaties With the Kuffar...
We say, it is permitted to make peace treaties, if in the treaty there is good for the Muslims, but under the condition that there is no clause within the treaty that nullifies or corrupts it.
Such as:
1) It is not permitted to include a condition in the treaty that relinquishes even a hand span of Muslim land to the Kuffar. Because, the land of Islam belongs to no one, therefore none can make negotiations over it. Such a condition nullifies the treaty because the land belongs to Allah and to Islam. It is not permitted for anyone to misuse anything in a domain not his own. Or to barter the Son of Adam that does not belong to him. With reference to the Russians, it is not permitted to negotiate with them until they retreat from every hand span of Afghani territory.
With the Jews in Palestine, likewise. ..."
only you may remember how I tried to make the same point based on reading (on August 1) the same July 24 interview at altmuslim.org with El-Gamal, that was posted at Park51.org website until the redesign launched last Tuesday.
http://www.theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php/features/articles/cordoba_house_-_yes_park51_-_who_knows/0018224
Posted Sep 11, 2010
"Cordoba House - Yes!: Park51 - No Way?
by Sheila Musaji
For all of us in the American Muslim community who have spent a lot of time defending Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf and Daisy Khan, and defending this Cordoba House project because we believed that they were the primary leaders of the project, and because they were under attack unfairly by Islamophobes - it may be that we were misled, or that we at least didn’t understand the structure of this project. What Imam Feisal or the Cordoba Initiative stand for may be irrelevant to the core issues involved. ..."
[connecting dots...but will the msm ever notice?]
K2K
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